New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

alle Tips und Fragen, die bei der Neuanschaffung eines KAT anfallen

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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » Do 28. Jun 2018, 01:40

AndreasE hat geschrieben:
Mi 27. Jun 2018, 09:42
Augusto,
it would probably make sense to list your requirements in more explicit form, if you want further input. Otherwise we end up spending too much time on fireside chat discussions.

From the trucks shown by you:
The first is well known, but approx 4 meters short of your 12m requirement.
The A1 8x8 in lime with the lifting living box. This would be my approach to "circle the square" on offroad capabilities, internal space, minimizing travel heigth and endurance.
KAT A1 8x8 Lime 2.JPG
I think you are overemphasizing the complexity of the diesel tank. 1000lt is 1 cubicmeter, thats all it takes. Need 2000lt, put 2 tanks on the truck.
The 4x4 with trailer is also an interesting "solution". It depends on the usage pattern of the 2 of you. Might be a hassle, or convenient.

The last point: Whatever the final solution will be. The more expensive it is, the less likely it will see "serious" offroad conditions. (Unless you are super rich and can afford destroying lots of value just for the pure fun of it.)

Andy

Hi Andy,

You are completely right about your first phrase... I even thought it some days ago... I will re-think what we really would like about the truck. I am doing a sketch to send to the manufacturer and I forgot this truck that is also a big inspiration for us "goleoni truck" https://www.instagram.com/doleoni_truck/?hl=en

Some comments about this truck will be appreciated!

I did not understand totally about the diesel tank... do you mean that with only one is enough or with two from 1000lts each?

We need off road and living/work space too so surely the truck would have certain limitations about off road.

About the trucks; The 8x8 beige Swiss was exhibit in a tv program in the Unites States and then it was posted on youtube, for us the interior is reduced to work and live we consider the truck just great! The lime, is also a great truck with the advantage os the lifting roof but we knew that any lifting roof whatever the size is, becomes very expensive, I even contacted Hellget at the beginning of our planning in the project but they told me that a project like this one could take some years before to be completed, so I understood that they were over demanded and with tons of work, & curiously... the one with the trailer is super interesting to us because we are thinking to have a trailer for many reasons, but yes this truck is also a great example, but in a longer size maybe not 12m or even 11m but longer that the truck showed.

To finish... this truck (the oxford grey), again is also together with the "doleoni truck" the closest than we are looking for!

Thank you!

Augusto! :)
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » Do 28. Jun 2018, 02:09

mussdochgehen hat geschrieben:
Mi 27. Jun 2018, 14:22
Augusto - If I am lucky I will do what Jstefan does one day... only with one additional axle. And I have thougth very very very long about the space needed to be happy on my journeys.
I guess most of the trucks (I mean boxes) people actually LIVE in for years are in the 5,5 to 7m category.
7 Meters is allready a lot of space! I have built a 7x2,55x2,1m box in my living room (! :D ) just to get a feeling for the size.
7m is a good maximum size for 8x8 and 6x6 long wheel base.
IMHO there is absolutely NO NEED to go from 7 to 8m (only 15% additional space) or 9m and reduce the terrain and destination options of the car by so much!

maybe you try this yourself.
buy some wood. and set up only the outlines of the box inside your home. thats good enough. you will be surprised!


and - another good point from andy:

keep it simple to repair
keep it "cheap" for your income class

only by doing so you are free to go for the experience and joy only - even by risking to damage some material.
if you hesitate all the time because you dont want to "scratch the valuable truck"... you might miss many of the advantures you were seeking when you initially started thinking about the whole project.
Hi Ralph...


What a great advice and point of view...!

Yes, for sure we would like to drive in many roads where the full truck would be scratched and even hit, we consider it because we want to be free without worries about scratches, etc. I know pretty well what it means about... I have a classic car where no scratch is allowed by any mean and we do not want that situation again.

About the size, again, great advice, we will be looking this weekend many other videos (again) about interiors and surely we will be finding a new approach about the size. We will be looking it with open mind and thinking again, that this is not a house... even more, we have almost no stuff other than our computers and almost no books, etc., we have 90% of our life in "digital", a little clothes, shoes,, no kids, no pets, but we think to have a small trailer for many reasons, IS this will be accomplish the whole project.

And yes, we want to keep simple and easy to repair any damage so yes, as Andy said, I agree too totally! for that reason I decided to create a post where I could ask and receive advice from you, persons with much experience, with trucks, etc.!!!
For sure I will create another post after this one would be decided and the next should be the next step!!!

Finally, I hope you could do in a future the trip of your dreams!

Thank you very much!
Augusto :)

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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » Do 28. Jun 2018, 04:03

mussdochgehen hat geschrieben:
Mi 27. Jun 2018, 14:59
stefans 3,70 would also just fit!
Ok,,, I see, thank you for the illustrations, pretty clear and a image says more than 1000 words...!

I / we thought to go for the maximum size/s due that we are fully active what means work/living/traveling... adding that we love to do sport almost daily, but of course the larger would be the truck the limitations will appears as well.

Diesel tanks,,, I also did not understood pretty well about, but what you say, if I well understood, is the capability to off road and climbing without obstructions in the middle of the chassis, for example the pictures from Andy where his truck is over a bunch/heap/mountain of sand and the truck is at the limit of the chassis floor.. is that right? PLEASE see this video that I post in the exact moment when the truck touches and hit the rock exactly where you mention not to put the extra diesel tanks https://youtu.be/t5oYFmNyRZM?t=3m35s (attached here the picture of the moment told you)

Well, for sure we will consider all your advices about the size, etc., for sure we want to drive free in all the senses, and thinking that scratches will appear as a travel-scars, almost proud of them!

I already told my wife to build a box and increase or decrease as our needs and likes demend!

Thanks again1!
Augusto
:)
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » Do 28. Jun 2018, 04:35

JStefan hat geschrieben:
Mi 27. Jun 2018, 22:06
Mussdochgehen:
Zeichnungen sehen gut aus... in der Theorie... sorry
Drawings look nice in theory, in the real world there are potholes or rocks. The tunnels are dark and washed in gravel or curves inside...




There is just three more from my side:

KISS... ( keep it stupid simple ) should be on the top of your list.
Otherwise you will build your problems on the road.

We have 1500 liter of fuel capacity... nice to have, but no no need. At least for us in the past. If you use the space between the rear 2 Axels gives you 400 Liter extra... with 14.00... using the Frame as Tank could be also possible, but not recommended....due to korrocion.

I’m not sure if a lifting roof does not generate more static and sealing problems... I decided not for us.

Last not least: do not overestimate Unicat or the other “ high end players” they all cook with water... we saw and I worked on quite some of them during the trip...starting from broken boxes ( Robusto ) or broken box frame connections... a lot from exclusive stuff does not last long .... what does a Hutchinson Rim with de and inflate, help you if a Lokal Tyre guy kills the valve... by mounting wrong ... I could continue endless... realize KISS, is the best I could suggest you.

Cheers
Stefan


Wer, Womit, Woher.... www.tvware.de

I Stefan,

If you have any other comment or advice about your experience driving the world please share it, since it is so much valuable to us... and for sure we will consider the size for all the comments here received for sure and of course we would like to feel free wherever we will go... allowing any scratch without worries of expensive repairs.

Let me tell you this; In the basis of our work (of course with exemptions) we will be parked from Monday to Friday because I need to work in my work station (a couple of computer screens) as well as my wife too, so we will be driving during the weekends and even... if the place where we will be please us too much we will be there as much time as we would like (or the visas allow) so we won't be high frequency drivers... all this about the diesel tanks that is and was our worry... why? because we want to go to the nature or not to be close to main cities, so maybe there is no need to install too big diesel tanks... could you say more about please?

About the "Robusto" truck, I contacted the owner a couple of months ago asking advice... so in the first and last email that he sent to me, he told me that they decided to sell the truck because the big size adding that for them the pick European Union laws limit the size too much and by what I understood they liked to drive in Europe... we do not expect to be driving in the old towns but we are aware that we need to accomplish this limits, we think to start a little in Scandinavia testing the truck, since it will be done in Germany and Poland, but just after that we expect to cross from Alaska to Patagonia and this trip will last at least 5 years for us, but avoiding the European side, at least the west part. Conclusion, yes we thought too that expensive does not means excellent!

About Colombia, we saw some persons talking that they entered in the opposite way that you did (I saw your website) from Panama shipping the trucks and then receiving it in Cali, all of them had the goal of Patagonia. I just found it https://ivssuk.com/shipping-across-the- ... -colombia/

Thanks fo the comments!!!

Augusto

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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von AndreasE » Do 28. Jun 2018, 09:32

Hi Augusto,
thanks for your many and long responses - which indicates a bit, that you are spending quite a significant amount of time towards this project - looks like you are already in a serious stage of "infection" :-)

The doleoni truck might be indeed a good blueprint you can work from as the truck is quite spacious internally (according to the owner a key reason he got it). The owner is registered here in the forum, reading, but not active. I can suggest to him that he contacts you, or vice versa, you can send me your contact details via PN and I will forward. He is very nice and was really helpful in offering his support when I looked for something.

You and your wife's work style (computer and monitors, monitors with a "s") will be one of your key architectural challenges, most likely around energy supply (both, production and storage), especially if you are planning to work in Nordic countries.

Besides the objective to heat the cabin for long periods (and get sufficient oxygen continously in), your computer equipment will use energy and produce heat. The easiest "solution" might be a silent generator, but this approach is rather "violating" the overall "back-to-nature" aspiration. Besides the fact that most generators are not build to run continously.

As part of another area of personal interest, I've done some work in energy efficient computing (one world record is still active). Depending on your work requirements, this part of your energy balance sheet need potentially careful consideration as well, as your "computer-active" time in the truck will be very atypical versus other travellers. If you are like me, large screens are a must for productive work. Unfortunately, enery consumption of these things are anything but optimal. Hope you don't have compute intensive work to do (incl. GPU's), then it quickly becomes a real (energy) challenge.

Have you done a quick of back-of-the-enevelope calculation, what your work related energy demands are? Would be too bad, if you need 25 km of power cables to the next city :-) . Alternatively, if you intend to use a trailer, you can plan the trailer as a "supply trailer". Tons of water, huge bathroom, lots of diesel tanks and a sturdy generator. Place the trailer 100m away from your truck and leverage this off-the-grid supply system. Look at what EADS did with the mobile ambulance system - a very similar concept :-)

With the diesel tanks mentioned. My argument was based on the following observation. Large diesel tanks are what size? for instance 1000 liters. That is 1 cubic meter. If you choose a 8x8 versus a 6x6 truck which allows you to extend the cabin by almost 2 meters with similar offroad capabilities (ramp angle, etc...), then you gain approximately 2m length x 2,5m width x 2m height = 10 cubic meter. Using 1 cubic meter for additional diesel seems to me a good trade-off for the increase in space (it is just 10%).

cheers,
Andy

mussdochgehen
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von mussdochgehen » Do 28. Jun 2018, 11:57

well...welll...well...

some more Information and it all Looks like a totally different Story. that happens if one judges others by ist own standards...

If I want to travel all the one Billion miles of roads on this planet I Need to Speed up. But If your way of conquering the globe is to park 5 days a week it is all different.

most of the People slowly travelling this planet underline the importance of living space. the larger - the better.
thus maybe in your case a different approach is more suitable:

a large and comfortable base truck and a tender. something like These:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elgWSXEMpa8

there are some small Trial Versions that can fit a 11m 8x8 - I have made drawings allready. there is also a 1 Person Version which fits crossways like a Standard quad.
I prefer those car like things over quads because they are much more comfortable and saver to drive with 2 persons in hard Terrain.

With the combination large base truck + tender your are virtually capable by going anywhere you like and still sleep well.
The only draw back is that you always Need to return to the base truck and might be forced to drive 1000miles around the mountain ridge instead of going over the pass. But at least you can race to the mountain top with your ATV.

and - Andy is right again - think intensively about your energy Problem, because Problem it is!

Ralph


In fact I know for myself, that I would be going crazy if the only vehicle at Hand would be the slow and large truck. That is why I will take the large motorbike... And I am thinking intinsively about the ATV. it is a leap in safty, Speed and adventure (offroads).
BUT...if you use it for going into towns..the bike is much better again....

... it is never easy! :think: :think: :think:

mussdochgehen
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von mussdochgehen » Do 28. Jun 2018, 16:23

@Stefan

Keep it stupid simple?

Halte es lächerlich einfach?

heisst das nicht "Keep it simple - stupid!" ?

Gestalte es doch lieber einfach - du dummkopf?

... auch solch wichtige dinge muss man doch klären? :lol:

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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von ALu » Do 28. Jun 2018, 16:50

Und ich dachte immer, KISS steht für "KAT is super simple" :o :D
Gruß

Andreas

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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von ALu » Do 28. Jun 2018, 17:20

Augusto, I would like to give you some advice that can save you a lot of money / disappointment in the future:

Visit as many owners of trucks with large cabins as possible. You will not get all the detailed information you need to make your decisions from reading on forums, watching youtube videos or visiting exhibitions. The process needs lots of time. Even if it means to fly around half the world, it is well invested money. Your investment will for sure be between 200.000 - 400.000 EUR, so a few 1.000 EUR for travel costs, beers and restaurant are "peanuts". The advice you will get is priceless.

Also, do not believe everything that your potential builder tells you. I have seen too many high priced rigs from premium manufacturers that have small to big problems on the road, but some of the owners do not talk about the problems because they fear lawsuits or are in a lawsuit with the builder. I know a family currently in Africa that wanted the biggest truck available and believed everything that their builder told them. Their plans were ruined when they found out on the road that there is a difference between the "offroad" they meant and the "offroad" their manufacturer meant. They won a first lawsuit, but lost years and still did not get the compensation they were entitled to by court. Make sure your builder actually built a truck / cabin the size you want and try to speak to owners.

You are just starting and thinking about the size of the cabin, but there is much much more to think about when it comes to designing the interior.

The first truck you build is for your enemy.
The second truck is for your friend.
The third truck is for yourself.

I skipped the first step, but it took me some years to build a truck that I would only slightly modify if I would build a new one. I would even consider an 8x8, because I already have a 6x6 as fallback :lol: Seriously: there were a lot of situations where I thought "how would I have gotten here with an 8x8 or a trucker higher than 3,7m?". There was only one situation where I thought: that would not have happened with an 8x8. But if you can live with some downsides, use whichever chassis is your dream. The chassis will not turn your dream into a nightmare, but an unqualified builder will.

Good luck with your decisions ...
Gruß

Andreas

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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von AndreasE » Do 28. Jun 2018, 17:21

ALu hat geschrieben:
Do 28. Jun 2018, 16:50
Und ich dachte immer, KISS steht für "KAT is super simple" :o :D
:D
Wie wahr. In diesem Sinne ist meist nicht das Fahrzeug das Problem, sondern der dazupassende Aufbau, der nicht "simple" ist.
Leider gilt die Gleichung:
Simple KAT + complex Aufbau = complex Gesamtwerk

Ich denke Roland's Gesamtkunstwerk ist an KISS-artiger Einfachheit nicht zu überbieten. :-)

LG,
Andy

mussdochgehen
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von mussdochgehen » Do 28. Jun 2018, 19:03

Yes.... That is another Point which is smart to be articulated.

I dont think there Are really bad Chassis.... You will get along With most of them...

But the cabin will Ruin your dream If it violates your key needs and wants. It needs to fit the Chassis.... Your Lifestyle and your driving

Ralph

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New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von JStefan » Do 28. Jun 2018, 23:19

Hai at all,

I Liked the way Andreas did it ( before he started to build )... at that Time we were in Nepal, he took

A new heater for us Bild

his plans,
his dreams,
his ideas

into a plane and came to visit me... we had a good time together and I am sure he took back home a lot of good things...he is still happy today...

The idea to take a trailer... from my side: Never ever... parking the trailer 200 mtrs away from the truck and do a cable... I would guess, in most parts of the world, it would take maximum 2 days and the cable will be used by someone else... if you are lucky the trailer will be there just add ons are gone.
Off road with a huge mobile plus a trailer...even on tracks in a mountain region...will be a pain in the as... especially if he wanted to go to remote areas.. if you need to reverse for 200mtrs on a small path???
Think about entering a gate where there is just a 3 mtrs road in front... quite often we could not enter gates with columns, because of the overall length of just 9.20mtrs... the roads are very often too small. On highways mostly no problem...
Did you ever drove in a muddy landslide, together with 50 stupid small car driver...every cm counts.

Do not plan Problems, leave them at home...

I like “Kat (without a Trailer) is super simple”...

Stefan


Wer, wo, womit... www.viajantes.de
Wer wie was wo? www.tvware.eu

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Lepatown
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » Fr 29. Jun 2018, 03:24

AndreasE hat geschrieben:
Do 28. Jun 2018, 09:32
Hi Augusto,
thanks for your many and long responses - which indicates a bit, that you are spending quite a significant amount of time towards this project - looks like you are already in a serious stage of "infection" :-)

The doleoni truck might be indeed a good blueprint you can work from as the truck is quite spacious internally (according to the owner a key reason he got it). The owner is registered here in the forum, reading, but not active. I can suggest to him that he contacts you, or vice versa, you can send me your contact details via PN and I will forward. He is very nice and was really helpful in offering his support when I looked for something.

You and your wife's work style (computer and monitors, monitors with a "s") will be one of your key architectural challenges, most likely around energy supply (both, production and storage), especially if you are planning to work in Nordic countries.

Besides the objective to heat the cabin for long periods (and get sufficient oxygen continously in), your computer equipment will use energy and produce heat. The easiest "solution" might be a silent generator, but this approach is rather "violating" the overall "back-to-nature" aspiration. Besides the fact that most generators are not build to run continously.

As part of another area of personal interest, I've done some work in energy efficient computing (one world record is still active). Depending on your work requirements, this part of your energy balance sheet need potentially careful consideration as well, as your "computer-active" time in the truck will be very atypical versus other travellers. If you are like me, large screens are a must for productive work. Unfortunately, enery consumption of these things are anything but optimal. Hope you don't have compute intensive work to do (incl. GPU's), then it quickly becomes a real (energy) challenge.

Have you done a quick of back-of-the-enevelope calculation, what your work related energy demands are? Would be too bad, if you need 25 km of power cables to the next city :-) . Alternatively, if you intend to use a trailer, you can plan the trailer as a "supply trailer". Tons of water, huge bathroom, lots of diesel tanks and a sturdy generator. Place the trailer 100m away from your truck and leverage this off-the-grid supply system. Look at what EADS did with the mobile ambulance system - a very similar concept :-)

With the diesel tanks mentioned. My argument was based on the following observation. Large diesel tanks are what size? for instance 1000 liters. That is 1 cubic meter. If you choose a 8x8 versus a 6x6 truck which allows you to extend the cabin by almost 2 meters with similar offroad capabilities (ramp angle, etc...), then you gain approximately 2m length x 2,5m width x 2m height = 10 cubic meter. Using 1 cubic meter for additional diesel seems to me a good trade-off for the increase in space (it is just 10%).

cheers,
Andy
Hi Andy,

In fact, yes about the beat to follow the post and questions & answers... at the beginning I thought that on weekends would be okay, then when I posted the "post" I saw that it will requires more time from me, so I am taking around 45 minutes per day to answer the questions and to find some info in the web... fir sure I am infected by the expedition truck life style, sure about that adding that I like to answer to those who are helping me with any advice!

Well, my wife works on an macbook pro and have a older macbook just a a backup but not working at the same time, and I work at he same time with new imac 28", a older macbook pro, an new ipad, but I can quit the ipad, the manufacturer also asked me about the watts and the consumption for this computers that are running most part of the day... For sure we will need to adapt to the weather and exterior condition since our work is primordial to be the expedition truck life style a success for us and of course we could not stay long time in places where the sun would be weak to power the solar panels... that in fact we hope to have as much as possible in the roof. Is amazing that you have world record, waooo, congratulations!
Here is the computers consumption; About the energy needs that we have, here are the computers usage:
We have operating 3 Apple computers, one of them an iMac(big one) and 2 Lap-Tops (portables ones but in any case running).
The iMac is on for 15 hours/day and its consumption is = 200W/H
The lap-tops are on 15 hours/day and its consumption is = 90W/H each.

For sure we would like to reduce or even to avoid the noisy generators while being in the nature... for sure!!! Take a look at this american truck... the watts capacity is great and the roof is not too big but the capacity I found amazing... https://earthroamer.com/xv-hd/, I am not an expert so for that reason I/we think to have as many solar panels as possible, because we need also to have a freezer, a refrigerator, etc, so our consumption yes you are correct, could be a huge deal for any person involved...

To be in communication with the doleoni owner would be great since the truck as a very close approach about what we would need, thank you to propose the contact, for sure I will be sending my email! He has some amazing pictures on instagram but I can see that there were no continuation since long time ago, adding that the truck was be selling by "expedition truck brokers" http://www.expedition-trucks.com/broker ... tion-truck.

What do you mean by EADS ???... I just found Airbus if I look in google...

I got it about the diesel tanks, yes. by the way, how many tanks and how many diesel litters a Man Kat has?

Thanks!

Augusto
:)

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Lepatown
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » Fr 29. Jun 2018, 03:40

mussdochgehen hat geschrieben:
Do 28. Jun 2018, 11:57
well...welll...well...

some more Information and it all Looks like a totally different Story. that happens if one judges others by ist own standards...

If I want to travel all the one Billion miles of roads on this planet I Need to Speed up. But If your way of conquering the globe is to park 5 days a week it is all different.

most of the People slowly travelling this planet underline the importance of living space. the larger - the better.
thus maybe in your case a different approach is more suitable:

a large and comfortable base truck and a tender. something like These:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elgWSXEMpa8

there are some small Trial Versions that can fit a 11m 8x8 - I have made drawings allready. there is also a 1 Person Version which fits crossways like a Standard quad.
I prefer those car like things over quads because they are much more comfortable and saver to drive with 2 persons in hard Terrain.

With the combination large base truck + tender your are virtually capable by going anywhere you like and still sleep well.
The only draw back is that you always Need to return to the base truck and might be forced to drive 1000miles around the mountain ridge instead of going over the pass. But at least you can race to the mountain top with your ATV.

and - Andy is right again - think intensively about your energy Problem, because Problem it is!

Ralph


In fact I know for myself, that I would be going crazy if the only vehicle at Hand would be the slow and large truck. That is why I will take the large motorbike... And I am thinking intinsively about the ATV. it is a leap in safty, Speed and adventure (offroads).
BUT...if you use it for going into towns..the bike is much better again....

... it is never easy! :think: :think: :think:
Hi Ralph

Thank you very much for your first phrase!!! you just traduced what we are looking for!!!:
totally off road... not, but off road in any case. Traveling around the globe... yes but slowly. Crossing the continent in a week... not but crossing it trough many weeks and months!!!

I will answer your message tomorrow since today have been a long day to me, but thank you for the comments... Please take a look at this wonder https://youtu.be/PqGJgLuPZhM we just love it! and yes, agree, we knew that bigger the truck bigger the need to have a secondary small vehicle.

Ps; We used to live in "Baja" 2 years ago so when I saw your video I immediately thought to tell you about that, in fact I know the places there and we have been in really isolated huge beaches there in front of the ocean.

Se you tomorrow!!

Augusto1
:)

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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » Fr 29. Jun 2018, 03:41

Hi everyone,

I will be answering the comments advices tomorrow or this week end.

Thank you in advance for your hep!!!

Augusto :)

mussdochgehen
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von mussdochgehen » Fr 29. Jun 2018, 08:42

Intetesting!!

I was talking to a World traveller on the Worlds largest 4x4 adventure trade Show in bad Kissingen and he Pointen out the smart as well...

Small...
Large scale reliability and comfort and good offroad capability...

Well.... Maybe i need to make a Phonecall.. :D

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ALu
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von ALu » Fr 29. Jun 2018, 13:58

Lepatown hat geschrieben:
Fr 29. Jun 2018, 03:24
Take a look at this american truck... the watts capacity is great and the roof is not too big but the capacity I found amazing... https://earthroamer.com/xv-hd/, I am not an expert so for that reason I/we think to have as many solar panels as possible, because we need also to have a freezer, a refrigerator, etc, so our consumption yes you are correct, could be a huge deal for any person involved...
I´m a bit sceptical about the 2.100W solar panel capacity they advertise. With the roof hatches, roof form, vehicle length and available solar panels that is a very close fit. With a min. 6.8m box you can mount 8 panels with 370Wp, which will give you 2.960 Wp (rounded down edges may reduce the available space for panels). But that earthroamer truck no way has a 6.8m long roof, and you can also see some hatches / AC mounts. The max. number of solar panels on the pics is 5, which gives you 1.850 Wp with the currently most powerful panels.

My advice: with your usage profile / travel profile, plan to install a silent diesel generator from a well known company (eg. Fischer Panda, SET-Stange), and make sure the generator is built in properly (eg. it does not drown during water crossings). That way you could reduce the solar panels and also reduce battery capacity. But I would try to use renewable energy as a priority. 800 Ah/24V LiFe(Y)Po4 should be ok. You will also not need a stronger alternator. There are several threads here and on other forums about the details. Happy reading ;-)
Gruß

Andreas

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ALu
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von ALu » Fr 29. Jun 2018, 14:06

mussdochgehen hat geschrieben:
Fr 29. Jun 2018, 08:42
I was talking to a World traveller on the Worlds largest 4x4 adventure trade Show in bad Kissingen and he Pointen out the smart as well...
Talk to 5 and get 6 different opinions. Add some beer, that will double the opinions :obscene-drinkingdrunk:

Buy a cheap test truck and see what you really need. (If you have enough money to throw away, build the 3 steps that I mentioned earlier :mrgreen: )

@Augusto: could you please tell us about your travel experience / history? Thx.
Gruß

Andreas

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ALu
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von ALu » Fr 29. Jun 2018, 14:24

Regarding the Smart:

we carried a Polaris quad bike on the rear end of the truck. In the total of 12 months on the road we used it exactly 4 times. We now switched to electric bikes (not the standard ones, they are a bit ... modified :auto-dirtbike: ).

I made the "mistake" to carry the quad bike outside the cabin. I would never have imagined that even with a good cover it will get that dirty in a matter of hours. The hassle getting the bike down, the dusty cover off and then cleaning the quad was too much, so that we very seldom used it. It looked cool, but that was it. If you want to carry a motorbike or quad, try to carry it inside the cabin, like Wolfgang does. But think about the extra hassle at borders, the extra TIP / Carnet costs, extra jerry cans for petrol (or buy a Arctic Cat diesel quad) etc. When shipping the KAT to Canada, I was told that the quad has to be in a seperate box ... and stuff like that.

We will use the bicycles more often, will attract less attention and with motors we can cover larger distances. Sure, we can not ride the bicycles in national parks with wild animals, but you are not allowed to ride a quad bike in there either.

If I had a large enough cabin (= 8x8), I would try to take both, Quad bike and eBikes, or two eScooters ( = 2 x Carnet / TIP)).
Gruß

Andreas

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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von mussdochgehen » Fr 29. Jun 2018, 19:10

only to set the following into a perspective:

I am a driving fanatic - I love driving - ketcars, MTB, Racebike, motorbikes, scooters, (also BMW cevolution) offroad cars, race cars, I have driven them all - M cars, Porsches, AMG, etc etc etc...

And I use quite a variety every day...

When thinking about the perfect tender (for sighseeing with 2 people) this is my conclusion:

E bikes (but please the 45kph version!) very good up to 30km distance one way, light
E scooter very good up to speeds of 120kmh and 80km distance, silent but heavy
Scooter (min. 400cc) great for traveling crowded cities and rural areas, handy + cheap
Long distance bike riding (>250km a day) tourerbike with automatic gears and min. 100HP, comfortable and easy
ATV (not quad) for long distance offroad...like mountain passes, desert, Trails etc...


I dont like quads at all - the way they steer...
my father broke his back on a tourist quad tour in namibia. He was flown to a german clinic tied to a bed secured not to move!

So - the result is:

fast ebikes + Motorbike + ATV :lol:

I will start with the honda crosstourer on the truck. for me it is a good compromise between town, fast rural and highway and moderate offroad.
Maybe later I will switch to 2 ebikes and an ATV, which will have a much broader range of usage.

I would lave to take a Suzuki sj413 - because it it VERY capable offroad and cheap and easy to repair.... but it is allready quite big ...



I was amoung the yachting people for 25 years.
There were people with very small tenders - 2hp motors ... they didnt use them very often, because they are crap.
but there are tenders who can safely and swiftly take you through sealevel 3 or 4 in a good 5-10mile radius. These we used every day!

so... only take things with you which are useful for what you are doing.

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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von mussdochgehen » Fr 29. Jun 2018, 19:25

I simply love this little fellow!
Dateianhänge
sj.png

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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von mussdochgehen » Fr 29. Jun 2018, 19:42

Hi Augusto...

here I found something to clearify expectations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luwXjcLTzdc&t=63s (start 1:14)

It is the completely ridiculous presentation of an "expedition" vehicle whos owners find it a "pretty good job" if the truck masters a shallow river without getting its rims whet. Are you looking for such a "touring" truck, or for a real - mostly uncompromised - expedition vehicle?


Here are some nice impressions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJQCVzeCXh0

study the video carefully... it tells a lot about

- driving skills (way too fast throu water)
- dust on the back
- small roads
- bad construction (very high weight at the highest point of cabin) and hence shaking a lot. You simply dont want 600kg (Bike+spare+krane) moving from right to left in 3,80m height at very end of the truck 2m behind the last axle...
- vibrations in the cabin
....

and here is your trailer version :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKhgxFtSij4

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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von ALu » Fr 29. Jun 2018, 20:05

mussdochgehen hat geschrieben:
Fr 29. Jun 2018, 19:42
Hi Augusto...

here I found something to clearify expectations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luwXjcLTzdc&t=63s (start 1:14)

It is the completely ridiculous presentation of an "expedition" vehicle whos owners find it a "pretty good job" if the truck masters a shallow river without getting its rims whet. Are you looking for such a "touring" truck, or for a real - mostly uncompromised - expedition vehicle?
Sorry Ralph, aber jetzt muss ich dir mal eine vor den Latz knallen. Du kennst Peter & Gabi nicht persönlich, oder? Sonst würdest du sowas nicht von dir geben. Wir waren in Afrika zusammen unterwegs, und ich kann dir versichern, daß deine Einschätzung ziemlich daneben ist. Peter & Gabi sind Strecken gefahren, die du mit dem 8x8 unter Garantie nicht schaffen wirst. Ich hatte mit dem 6x6 mit einem kürzeren Radstand so meine Probleme, aber mit dem 8x8? Keine Chance. Die Tour nach Island war die erste Tour mit diesem Fahrzeug, und da ist man verständlichweise erstmal vorsichtig, was Wasser und Gelände angeht. Das Fahrzeug selbst sieht auf den ersten Blick etwas überdimensioniert aus, aber es ist genau das eingebaut, was Augusto haben will: PC Arbeitsplätze, ausreichend Solar & Batterie, Generator, Diesel-ATV, große Kabine - genug Platz etc. An dem Fahrzeug ist Peter sehr wenig Kompromisse eingegangen und hat den legal zur Verfügung stehenden Raum voll ausgenutzt (wobei das Farzeug nur 3,75m hoch ist, ich habe nachgemessen weil ich es nicht geglaubt habe). Wenn du magst, kannst du übernächste Woche mal bei mir vorbeikommen, und Gabi, Peter & Globi kennenlernen. Ich bin mir sicher, du würdest dabei viel lernen und dich danach nicht mehr über andere Leute lächerlich machen.

Globi kann ich Augusto uneingeschränkt empfehlen, ich würde ihn auch fahren.

@Augusto: ignore Ralph´s comment, the vehicle in the video ist very very close to your demands.
Gruß

Andreas

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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von mussdochgehen » Fr 29. Jun 2018, 20:50

Ich finde das Auto gar nicht so überdimensioniert - je nach Einsatzweck. Und ich habe nicht über die beiden gelacht! - denn ich kenne Sie nicht - sondern einzig über die Präsentation der Strecken (übrigens in einigen Ihrer Filme) als Meisterleistung für Fahrer und Fahrzeug. Das sage ich den beiden gerne auch persönlich. Und das sage ich auch meinem Vater wenn er sich mal wieder anstellt... :D

Und Andreas - jetzt mal Hand auf Herz - du willst mir nicht erzählen der Kat würde kapitulieren wo dieser Trumm durchkäme?

Jetzt übertreibst du.

Es liegt vermutlich nur an der Wortwahl:
Etwas mehr über den eigenen schiss und scheiss lachen fänd ich viel cooler.

Aber ich lerne die beiden gerne kennen und fahre in 1-2 Jahren gerne mit ihnen und wenn ich nicht hinterher komme nehme ich alles zurück und entschguldige mich mit einer Kiste Champus. ... kann mich jetzt jeder beim Wort nehmen 8-)
Das will ich wissen ;)

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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von mussdochgehen » Fr 29. Jun 2018, 21:12

Hi Augusto,

not to be unpolite:

Andreas has been travelling with and knows the owners of "globi" Peter and Gaby. And he was angry with me because he understood that I make fun of them. But I dont. I made fun of the (to me) very exaggerated discription in the video.

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