New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

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Lepatown
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New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » Mi 20. Jun 2018, 02:24

Hello Everyone

Together with my wife we are already in a project for an Expedition Truck with a Man Kat. We are looking for a 1990s generation truck but we have not decide between a 6x6 or 8x8 chassis... so some advices will be very appreciated!!!
Also we will be going up to 12 meters long and we like to go to really isolated places and beaches. The manufacturer advice us to go for the 6x6 because there will be more space to install more diesel tanks as well as the mechanic should be more easy than a 8x8, also that the diesel consumption is higher in an 8x8 than in a 6x6.

Thank you very much and we will appreciate your comments and advices!!! :)

AndreasE
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von AndreasE » Mi 20. Jun 2018, 11:26

Hi Lepatown (Do you also have a real (first) name ? We would appreciate to talk to "humans" :-) )

Welcome to the KAT Forum,
which is a forum around the particular manufacturer of high-mobility trucks - with less emphasis on the plus and minus of long distance travel cabins.

As always, the more you are able to share what your (and your wifes) intentions are, the better we are able to comment on your asks.
A few comments to your initial statements:
  • Neither a 6x6 or 8x8 will be easy to retrofit to a 12 meter long expedition truck. The truck is 10,5m long by itself, and unless you intend to add 1,5m behind the last axle, you have to give up some length. Adding your requirement of significant off-road capabilities, a 1,5m rear extension might not be recommended.
  • Extending the frame might be easier with the 6x6 versus the 8x8 , due to the more complex steering geometry involved with the 2 front axles
  • The KAT 1 was built between 1977 and 1981, the successor KAT A1 from 1989 until 1992 - your choice. Cheaper and more spare parts are available for the KAT 1, a bit more modern (= oriented towards travelling) is the A1.
  • The front cabin takes about 3 meters, due to the engine behind the drives cabin. Need to be considered when planing your cabin. It is possible, bt not easy to connect the travelcabin with the drivers cabin in the front, but then the spare tyre need to be somewhere else.
  • Some large 8x8 can be seen with Actionmobil
  • A 6x6 with 12 meter will be possible (roadworthy), but my guess is that it won't be able for serious off-road travel (except dirt roads)
rgds,
Andy

mussdochgehen
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von mussdochgehen » Mi 20. Jun 2018, 15:50

Hi Lepatown,

I plan to do exactly the same as you and I tortured myself for a very long time (almost 2 years) with the same question. But in my case the main reason for this long peroid of time is that the 6x6 looks so cool. :clap:

If you are weighing arguments and facts than the decission is (IMHO) merely between the 4x4 and the 8x8.

The 4x4 is lighter, cheaper to drive and maybe easier on tiny roads.
The 8x8 has its advantages in livingspace and on soft ground - simply due to the less ground pressure per wheel and it rides smoother and calmer on bad roads and offroad because of its double axels.

In the end I went for the 8x8 because if you talk difficult offroad conditions it is mostly because of soft ground or big holes :lol: On hard ground many vehicles are able to make their ways.
And...with an 8x8 you get a good starter pack: bike up with crane, shelter up with crane and off you go!

and if you start with the "tiny mountain path discussion" - than you better go for a small unimog or a toyota... or you put a Motorbike on your 8x8 :mrgreen:

attached a picture of my actual constellation Kat 1 8x8 with FM2. 88cm longer than original. Meaning it is 11m long.
(I know it looks a bit auckward due to camera perspective)

I was long tempted to go for the newer cars as they are more comfortable...more powerful... but in the end I bought the old one.
The reason is that it is no rocket science to repair for an office nerd like me and spare parts are available.
Comfort (noise, climate, drivetrain etc) can be influenced positively by technical changes with the money you saved at the initial aquisition...
if you feel the need after all...

regards
Ralph


by the way... if you go for the long wheelbase 6x6 - the agility advantage of the 6x6 over the 8x8 is further diminished!
check this video... try 0:57 with a 6x6 with long wheelbase!... :whistle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MrdczdKZT0
Dateianhänge
IMG-20180615-WA0009 (2).jpg

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Lepatown
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » So 24. Jun 2018, 05:03

Hi Andy!!!

Sure, my name is Augusto!

First, thank you for your advice and comments... in deed the manufacturer until now would be GekkoTruck, and my wife and I wanted the 8x8 but by some advices we decided to go for the 6x6 because there will be more space between the axles for diesel tanks, etc., as well as as to deal with less mechanical possible issues so.. even when my dream is and will be the 8x8 I agree that the 6x6 is better for us right now.

We want to go up to 12m because we will be living-traveling & working there... we are fully active but thanks to our work we can do it all in the expedition truck so we prefer to have the maximum.
The better we guess will be the early Man Kat A1, apparently there are spare parts easely, and surely as you said more expensive but the truck also will have 10 years less then the first generation!

Thank you again and any other comment will be highly appreciated!!!
Sincelery!
Augusto-Lepatown (human kind) :)

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Lepatown
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » So 24. Jun 2018, 05:21

Hi Ralph!

Thanks for the comments,,, yes you are right... the discussion about 6x6 vs 8x8 is just infinite and both are just great! Of course the 8x8 is for sure the king of all off-road, but we need to think as well in independence about traveling long distances vs the diesel consumption, but most information I saw more I know that there are fuel stations available closer and closer in most countries. We really want to go to isolated places, not the kind of cities or old towns, we are looking the very wild experience!

Well... I also said, okay if won't go for the 8x8 then I prefer the 4x4 but the length of the wheel base and the off-road capability decrease too, so in the middle I guess would be okay.
Your truck seems great already with the living box and the motorcycle... nice purchase!

I guess we know already all the vendors about Man Kats in Europe and we are waiting for the answer from Swinkels Trucks, since they have nice trucks and the manufacturer is a friend of them. Just two weeks ago we almost bought a truck 1999 but apparently there are no spare parts for the suspension system and the conversion to receive the living box would be costing around 40,000 euros so of course, we decided not to buy it!

I will be posting more!!!
Thank you again!
Sincerelery
Augusto :clap:

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Lepatown
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » So 24. Jun 2018, 05:23

Ralph... I forgot, the video is great, I guess the truck is from a seller in the UK, it looks great. Look this video is just amazing https://youtu.be/kbqA1Jzwi98. This is power! :dance:

AndreasE
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von AndreasE » So 24. Jun 2018, 12:43

Hi Augusto,
thanks for your reply.

Great if the two of you have the flexibility to be active anywhere globally in your respective professions.

There are 2 users in this forum with 8x8 KAT 1 and 8m living boxes. Petra is about to build out her 8x8 and another user (Andreas) has a 8x8 with the former KTM racing box mounted.

I just finished to write up all the wheelbases of the different models of special purpose vehicles of MAN (the X range) in a different thread.

To keep cost and functionality somehow in balance, in effect only 5 series of the many different vehicles might be considered for further investigation as a base for such a vehicle. Still, the 12m size aspiration will be a challenge in itself - have you thought about a fifth-wheeler configuration? Sam's 6x6 with trailer is such a great looking combination. Here and [urlhttps://www.kat-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2 ... 175#p38046]here[/url]

1) MAN KAT1 series (1977-1982): The orginal. Available in different wheelbases. Best supply of "affordable" spare parts. Still 30% of original pieces manufactured in military service today. Engine: Deutz 413 Series
2) MAN KAT A1 series (1987-1993): Successor to the KAT 1 series, much smaller numbers had been built (approx 1160 vs. 8400). Many parts are similar, but engine and drivers cabin are different. Engine: Deutz 513 Series (or in much smaller numbers with MAN D2866 engines). Lots of 8x8 in normal width and 2900mm sold and on the private market
3) MAN KAT A1.1 (1996-2003). Switch to MAN watercooled engines (D2866), almost only 6x6 sold from military users, 8x8 A1.1 are still very rare, as they are still used in military services
4) The US MAN KAT II (MAN type 550). About 500-600 had been built in the mid-90's. 8x8, but quite short wheelbase (opposing your objective of a long cabin). Engine: MAN V10 normal aspirated
5) Austrian ÖAF S-LKW: About 500 built in mid-80's. Only available in 6x6 formula. Watercooled MAN Engine

You mentioned a 6x6 with defective suspension. If this truck is one of the 12 trucks built with hydraulic suspension (HEPLEX), then your decision not to buy was probaby the right one (unless you are an expert in hydraulics). They had been offered since a while, but seemingly, nobody is able to fix the suspension. (or is willing to afford the exercise)

One alternative for you to consider is the list of KAT 1 6x6 bridge transporters. About 300 of those had been build, their wheelbase is 900mm longer than standard (4700mm vs. 3800mm) and might offer you a quite long frame for getting a long cabin on top of it. They seems to be still available with dealers. Here are some pictures

cheers,
Andy

mussdochgehen
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von mussdochgehen » So 24. Jun 2018, 18:09

Hi andy...hi Augusto....

There is a third guy which i had been talking to by Phone living in Hamburg.
He is maybe the closest in use to Augusto.

He Has a blissbox on an 8x8 Kat 1 Without technical changes... Afaik...and uses the Truck for Familie traveling and as his Office.

His reports about traveling the Balkan countries With an average of 38 Liters... Not going faster than 70...made my final decision for the 8x8.

If you like maybe i can give you the contact.

Regards
Ralph

Btw ... there are uncounted comments on the consuption of these trucks. I guess the difference between the 8x8 and 6x6 - if driven not to fast and with the same weight to carry - is max. 10l/100. I dont think that this will decrease the action radius a lot. And bigger tanks dont cost a fortune.
You did mention the more complex mechanix... compared to 6x6? which? it is the same car - only the stearing is double and a bit more complex to adjust... but.. how often is that nessesarry?

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Lepatown
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » So 24. Jun 2018, 21:17

Hi Andy!

Great information!!! Thank you very much, for sure we will be back very often to read again the information provided here for you about the versions vs overall view! In fact, the truck that I mention here https://home.mobile.de/CARAVANTRUCKSTRA ... _225048447 was inspected by a professional long time ago and we follow his advice, in any case the seller is and was very polite and even he proposed us another trucks, we really appreciated added that the seller also told us about an estimate cost price to the conversion to receive the living box! I hope the truck will be sold soon by a buyer able to work on it! but we just want some truck as much adapted as possible with a low cost for further conversions and work!

Great links and the trucks from Sam & Andreas are pretty nice too. About the fifth wheel, I really do not think that would work for us.. so we prefer a chassis to build a normal expedition truck! Thank you for the suggestion. We were thinking all time "the newer the better" but based in the information about spare parts/price & availability, I will re think again it! I still feel that the better for us would be a 1999-2003 generation.

12m long... yes we know that it is a challenge but again, we are full active, 35 & 39 years old and we prefer to have enough space instead to lack of it with such an important and costly project! The only aspect that can make us think about the size is the possible incompatibility with standard streets and or small roads... in any case as I said, our, idea is not to go to the "old town European style", but to go to the isolated places, but of course we are aware that we will be even to cross all kind of road in any or other moment!!!

Thank you again for the support and comments here!!!, I hope more users will be interesting to leave their point of view and comments1
Augusto1 :)

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Lepatown
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » So 24. Jun 2018, 21:26

Hi Ralph!

Interesting what you say... Of course, to be in touch with the owner of the 8x8 crossing the Balkans would be great great and from the 1st hand to know about the "complexity of 8x8".

I understand totally what you say about "complexity vs the really need to work on it" we have right now and from many years a big truck (American Style) with lots of comfort and complexity... but in the same way never ever we really had the need to work on it! So I agree with you about "when really we will need to deal with this complexity", as I said the 8x8 is and would be my dream, and my wife says that 6x6 or 8x8 is up to me! So I have this responsibility too, to choice the right one... full off road & the easiest possible to deal with.

Thank you for your comments!

Augusto! :)

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katlaw50
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von katlaw50 » So 24. Jun 2018, 23:49

Hi Augusto,
the owner of the 8x8 with bliss-box is Daniel, member "-dr-" in this forum.
Some information you can find in the following thread: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2481.
To get into contact with Daniel you could send him a "PN" (Persönliche Nachricht), using this forum.
Another direct contact and further informations you can find at the homepage of Daniel: http://www.supremacy.de/!
Best wishes for your project!
Sincerely Wolfgang

AndreasE
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von AndreasE » Mo 25. Jun 2018, 00:35

Hi Augusto,
the link you provided is from the car I talked about. There seems to be a serious issue with the hydraulic suspension system, as this car is on offer for a few years now and I know that quite a few people tried to find a solution to the suspension issue. Originally, I was interested in this car years ago (there are 2 on offer), but the hydraulic issue turned me away from these A1.1 - and I went for a version with normal spring coil suspension.

Sorry, but my link with the wheelbase table I created was wrong - here is the correct link to the table. If you want to translate german speaking postings into english or your nativ language (just in case), you could use www.deepl.com for automatic translation - imho, currently the best translation service.

Coming back to your 12m length desire. Besides the signifant negative impact on off-road capabilities, you first hurdle to pass is to get the car registered with this overall length. Using the recommended technical info of manufacturers, the max length without extending the wheelbase are:

MAN KAT 1 6x6 flatbed: 9.290mm
MAN KAT 1 6x6 bridgetransporter: 10.820mm
MAN KAT 1 8x8: 11.000mm
MAN KAT A1 6x6: 9.730mm
MAN KAT A1 8x8: 10.930mm

Don't forget to discount approx 300cm for the the drivers cabin to calculate the max living cabin length available to you.

Your country's legal requirements might differ, but I recommend that you check this first before selecting a car. Authorities in many countries are hesitant to allow longer cars than the manufacturer's recommendation - but as said, your country might differ.

extending the wheelbase has some issues as well:
1) reduces the off-road capabilities quite fast
2) increases the turning radius. Don't forget that both 8x8 types are already over the street legal limit of 25m diameter with 26,4 and 28,1m. Extending the wheelbase of the 8x8 will get you fast into 30m territory and I can only wish you well to get this approved.

cheers,
Andy

mussdochgehen
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von mussdochgehen » Mo 25. Jun 2018, 09:32

Hi Augusto,

Andy points at a very important issue to think about. Making the 8x8 - despite legal issues - 12m long will reduce offroad abilities drastically.
The ONLY reason why I "allowed" myself to mount the FM2 Cabin instead of the short FM1 (making it 11m) was the fact that the shelters are very sturdy and ... in the extremest of all cases ... I could remove the back chains and the FM2 could move "freely" and slide about the ground only beeing connected to the front chains...

But this is only because the FM2 is sturdy and cheap. With a large and expensive box this is no option and I would rather stick to 10m!

If all this is "nuts" to you and you would never go into this kind of terrain - maybe than a different (modern) truck is a better choice as you do not need a MAN KAT1 for gravel roads?
...form follows funktion...

ralph

situations like these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDOV0W2fYf8 (start 0:29)

or better here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsZ8m2dnmRg (start 3:57)

much easier with 8x8 :mrgreen: see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fksb9HXbIBY (start 3:07)

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Lepatown
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » Di 26. Jun 2018, 02:29

katlaw50 hat geschrieben:
So 24. Jun 2018, 23:49
Hi Augusto,
the owner of the 8x8 with bliss-box is Daniel, member "-dr-" in this forum.
Some information you can find in the following thread: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2481.
To get into contact with Daniel you could send him a "PN" (Persönliche Nachricht), using this forum.
Another direct contact and further informations you can find at the homepage of Daniel: http://www.supremacy.de/!
Best wishes for your project!
Sincerely Wolfgang
Hi Wolfgang
I will se carefully the information about Daniel and yes, for sure I will be asking him more about the 8x8 truck, since in his website there are some long trips, so he will know important facts and aspects about the truck.
Thank you for the information! :)
Augusto

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Lepatown
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » Di 26. Jun 2018, 02:52

AndreasE hat geschrieben:
Mo 25. Jun 2018, 00:35
Hi Augusto,
the link you provided is from the car I talked about. There seems to be a serious issue with the hydraulic suspension system, as this car is on offer for a few years now and I know that quite a few people tried to find a solution to the suspension issue. Originally, I was interested in this car years ago (there are 2 on offer), but the hydraulic issue turned me away from these A1.1 - and I went for a version with normal spring coil suspension.

Sorry, but my link with the wheelbase table I created was wrong - here is the correct link to the table. If you want to translate german speaking postings into english or your nativ language (just in case), you could use www.deepl.com for automatic translation - imho, currently the best translation service.

Coming back to your 12m length desire. Besides the signifant negative impact on off-road capabilities, you first hurdle to pass is to get the car registered with this overall length. Using the recommended technical info of manufacturers, the max length without extending the wheelbase are:

MAN KAT 1 6x6 flatbed: 9.290mm
MAN KAT 1 6x6 bridgetransporter: 10.820mm
MAN KAT 1 8x8: 11.000mm
MAN KAT A1 6x6: 9.730mm
MAN KAT A1 8x8: 10.930mm

Don't forget to discount approx 300cm for the the drivers cabin to calculate the max living cabin length available to you.

Your country's legal requirements might differ, but I recommend that you check this first before selecting a car. Authorities in many countries are hesitant to allow longer cars than the manufacturer's recommendation - but as said, your country might differ.

extending the wheelbase has some issues as well:
1) reduces the off-road capabilities quite fast
2) increases the turning radius. Don't forget that both 8x8 types are already over the street legal limit of 25m diameter with 26,4 and 28,1m. Extending the wheelbase of the 8x8 will get you fast into 30m territory and I can only wish you well to get this approved.

cheers,
Andy
Hi Andy

What a coincidence about the truck, in fact I was almost to deposit when I knew that the truck was inspected long time ago by a professional and there were many issues due to the suspension... and yes there are 2 on sell... good luck to the buyer of this!

The table is just precious information, no problem for the translation, I will use the link that you provided or google with the automatic one, I did not knew this limits bout the wheelbase vs the overall length, I will take a look for sure...
Question??? In the case that we absolutely would like the 12m long... do you know what we need to do or the manufacturer to reach this approval?

Yes, I thought about the disadvantages about the length, and is a factor that I still think about, I saw some videos when the trucks have a hard time dealing while turning, I can imagine the drivers sweating... I will consider this factor seriously! Even when we won't be the kind of "old European towns" travelers I understand that many times we will need to cross even when we are not really interested to visit this places.
I was inspired in this UNICAT truck https://www.unicat.net/pdf/UNICAT-MXXL2 ... -en-es.pdf pag 10 (I am not counting the rear slide-out because in that case the truck goes from 12m to 13.5m long) https://www.unicat.net/en/info/MXXL24AH.php about the 12m length (I am not counting the rear and of course that we want as much interior space as possible.

We will manufacture the truck in Germany and to register too, even when we think to be driving the truck mostly in non the EU we want to approve the German and EU laws in the case that in a future we would like to sell the truck or to change it. Also because the EU laws are the most strict so in the whole American continent there is no problem at all if the truck has European registration.

Thank you and I will consider this aspect about the length. Once I saw that if the manufacturer is registed and if he approves the modification then the truck is approved... do you know something about?

Thank you again! :)
Augusto
Zuletzt geändert von Lepatown am Di 26. Jun 2018, 03:44, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

AndreasE
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von AndreasE » Di 26. Jun 2018, 03:42

Augusto,
any solution you want to have, has to be a compromise between competing requirements. When you talked about siginificant offroad capabilities and referred to the video from Congo, I would have never expected you to show us the Unicat XXL truck. Besides the fact that this truck costs more than a million Euro, it's offroad capabilities are rather in the category dirt-roads and light sand dunes. It's approach and departure angle, as well as the super low ramp angle between 2. and 3. axle as well as the low mounted soft materials used prohibit any serious offroad exercises without damaging the truck.

The MAN KAT can go much more serious off-road tracks than the Unicat XXL.
Here is a picture where my 8x8 does NOT touch the ground underneath it (Think about this passage with the Unicat XXL)
Bild

or think about the tail end of the XXL in such a case where the KAT does not touch anything (outside using its tyres)
Bild


At the end, you and your wife have to decide where you want to go, how you want to live and how much to invest to reach both objectives. Life is a compromise.

cheers,
Andy

AndreasE
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Registriert: Do 1. Nov 2012, 21:07

Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von AndreasE » Di 26. Jun 2018, 04:31

Sorry, I mixed up the price tag of the Unicat.
It seems to be rather in the 3 million range and not 1 million when ordered new.
http://www.coolthings.com/mxxl-24-ah-wh ... -fortress/

Forgot to mention that the MXXL is listed on the second hand page of Unicat ( A heavy discount might be possible :-) )
https://www.unicat.net/en/pics/MXXL24AH-MAN8x8-sh-2.php

cheers,
Andy

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Lepatown
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » Mi 27. Jun 2018, 02:22

mussdochgehen hat geschrieben:
Mo 25. Jun 2018, 09:32
Hi Augusto,

Andy points at a very important issue to think about. Making the 8x8 - despite legal issues - 12m long will reduce offroad abilities drastically.
The ONLY reason why I "allowed" myself to mount the FM2 Cabin instead of the short FM1 (making it 11m) was the fact that the shelters are very sturdy and ... in the extremest of all cases ... I could remove the back chains and the FM2 could move "freely" and slide about the ground only beeing connected to the front chains...

But this is only because the FM2 is sturdy and cheap. With a large and expensive box this is no option and I would rather stick to 10m!

If all this is "nuts" to you and you would never go into this kind of terrain - maybe than a different (modern) truck is a better choice as you do not need a MAN KAT1 for gravel roads?
...form follows funktion...

ralph

situations like these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDOV0W2fYf8 (start 0:29)

or better here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsZ8m2dnmRg (start 3:57)

much easier with 8x8 :mrgreen: see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fksb9HXbIBY (start 3:07)
Hi Ralph!

I understand the 12m long vs the off road capabilities... adding that apparently the registration will allows less than 12 meters... My wife and I want the 12m because we will be living there, I mean full time, not just some weeks per year, also we will be working and traveling there too, but for sure we will see with the manufacturer about the registration vs the Man Kat model vs the allowed length!

The videos are great and the 3rd is known by us and this one as many others made us felt in love with the Man Kat... adding the 8x8 version...

So we must to consider the independence about the diesel, tanks, off road capabilities (since we want to go to Alaska, Chile, Siberia, etc... we will be avoiding the EU, at least at the beginning but in any case we want to register in Germany).

Thank you very much for the videos, the 1st & 2nd are great, is this one of your trucks or from a friend?

This video is mazing and part of many others to inspire us to have a Man Kat, take a look (surely you know it) https://youtu.be/t5oYFmNyRZM

Sincerely
Augusto!
:)

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Lepatown
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von Lepatown » Mi 27. Jun 2018, 02:44

AndreasE hat geschrieben:
Di 26. Jun 2018, 04:31
Sorry, I mixed up the price tag of the Unicat.
It seems to be rather in the 3 million range and not 1 million when ordered new.
http://www.coolthings.com/mxxl-24-ah-wh ... -fortress/

Forgot to mention that the MXXL is listed on the second hand page of Unicat ( A heavy discount might be possible :-) )
https://www.unicat.net/en/pics/MXXL24AH-MAN8x8-sh-2.php

cheers,
Andy
Hi Andy!

First, congratulations for your truck! and yes, I can not imagine the XXL going into that roads, agree with you about the medium off road capabilities and yes, I know that the price was much more than 1 million, I thought 2 millions, the price is just crazy!

We are considering all these factors as well, in any case we love the Man Kat and for sure even if at the end the truck would be dirty-roads or medium off road for sure it would be a Man Kat. We saw many modern trucks in the range of 30,000 to 45,000 euros but most of them have too much kilometers and we just preferred not to deal with electronics or too much modern complexity, thanks that we have an classic american car from 1964 full steel and 0 electronics and we have being driving it for long distances (2000 kilometers) without problem so we loved this way!

The only factor that personally pushes me to the 6x6 is the possibility to add more diesel tanks... the manufacturer advice us the same, so we will be thinking about! and since the truck will have a living box the clearance would be just a little higher than the XXL.

Please take a look at the Man Kats expedition trucks that inspired us too;
Screen Shot 2018-03-30 at 6.06.10 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-03-30 at 6.09.22 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-03-30 at 6.08.10 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-05-29 at 19.20.34.png
Screen Shot 2018-03-30 at 6.05.51 PM.png
Sincerely
Augusto!
:)

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JStefan
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von JStefan » Mi 27. Jun 2018, 08:00

All depend what he wanted to do and to Go....
We are now 9 years on the road Asia & South America ... with our kat1 6x6.... if the Himalaya is on his list... fortget about 12 mtrs, the turning radius do Not fit to this „Tracks“... and you Need to Go over the Edge. Also beside the main roads... the Andes doesn’t work well, if the truck is too long or too high... forget the 4 mtr. High from Europe... 3.70 and finish... bridges, trees, cables....

Take care
Stefan

By the way... no way to get our Truck imported to Colombia... even it has a German registration. Sorry... we tried it hard...

Saludos de Panama


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AndreasE
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von AndreasE » Mi 27. Jun 2018, 09:42

Augusto,
it would probably make sense to list your requirements in more explicit form, if you want further input. Otherwise we end up spending too much time on fireside chat discussions.

From the trucks shown by you:
The first is well known, but approx 4 meters short of your 12m requirement.
The A1 8x8 in lime with the lifting living box. This would be my approach to "circle the square" on offroad capabilities, internal space, minimizing travel heigth and endurance.
KAT A1 8x8 Lime 2.JPG
I think you are overemphasizing the complexity of the diesel tank. 1000lt is 1 cubicmeter, thats all it takes. Need 2000lt, put 2 tanks on the truck.
The 4x4 with trailer is also an interesting "solution". It depends on the usage pattern of the 2 of you. Might be a hassle, or convenient.

The last point: Whatever the final solution will be. The more expensive it is, the less likely it will see "serious" offroad conditions. (Unless you are super rich and can afford destroying lots of value just for the pure fun of it.)

Andy

mussdochgehen
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von mussdochgehen » Mi 27. Jun 2018, 14:22

Augusto - If I am lucky I will do what Jstefan does one day... only with one additional axle. And I have thougth very very very long about the space needed to be happy on my journeys.
I guess most of the trucks (I mean boxes) people actually LIVE in for years are in the 5,5 to 7m category.
7 Meters is allready a lot of space! I have built a 7x2,55x2,1m box in my living room (! :D ) just to get a feeling for the size.
7m is a good maximum size for 8x8 and 6x6 long wheel base.
IMHO there is absolutely NO NEED to go from 7 to 8m (only 15% additional space) or 9m and reduce the terrain and destination options of the car by so much!

maybe you try this yourself.
buy some wood. and set up only the outlines of the box inside your home. thats good enough. you will be surprised!


and - another good point from andy:

keep it simple to repair
keep it "cheap" for your income class

only by doing so you are free to go for the experience and joy only - even by risking to damage some material.
if you hesitate all the time because you dont want to "scratch the valuable truck"... you might miss many of the advantures you were seeking when you initially started thinking about the whole project.

mussdochgehen
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von mussdochgehen » Mi 27. Jun 2018, 14:39

another thing:

I do not understand what this guy tries to talk you into.... if you put x-tra large diesel tanks under a 6x6 long wheel base ... you destroy the important (i-dont-know-the-english-word)-angle under the car... and your truck will best be able for city citeseeing :lol:

is it ramp angle?

And always remember Jstefans words:

High is no good!
Never. stay a low as possible. And build your box with roof slopes.

compare: tunnel - or moutain overhang on some kind of mountain road or pass:

a) 3,5m wide road with 4,50m hight and a 4m high car

b) 3,5m wide road with 4,50m hight and a 3,80m high car with roof slopes
Dateianhänge
4m.jpg
380m.jpg

mussdochgehen
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Re: New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von mussdochgehen » Mi 27. Jun 2018, 14:59

stefans 3,70 would also just fit!
Dateianhänge
370m.jpg

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New Expedition Truck Project... 6x6 vs 8x8!!!

Beitrag von JStefan » Mi 27. Jun 2018, 22:06

Mussdochgehen:
Zeichnungen sehen gut aus... in der Theorie... sorry
Drawings look nice in theory, in the real world there are potholes or rocks. The tunnels are dark and washed in gravel or curves inside...




There is just three more from my side:

KISS... ( keep it stupid simple ) should be on the top of your list.
Otherwise you will build your problems on the road.

We have 1500 liter of fuel capacity... nice to have, but no no need. At least for us in the past. If you use the space between the rear 2 Axels gives you 400 Liter extra... with 14.00... using the Frame as Tank could be also possible, but not recommended....due to korrocion.

I’m not sure if a lifting roof does not generate more static and sealing problems... I decided not for us.

Last not least: do not overestimate Unicat or the other “ high end players” they all cook with water... we saw and I worked on quite some of them during the trip...starting from broken boxes ( Robusto ) or broken box frame connections... a lot from exclusive stuff does not last long .... what does a Hutchinson Rim with de and inflate, help you if a Lokal Tyre guy kills the valve... by mounting wrong ... I could continue endless... realize KISS, is the best I could suggest you.

Cheers
Stefan


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